Comments on: Live by the Snark, die by the Snark

By: Vinu

Vinu — Sun, 16 Apr 2006 04:38:42 +0000

I strongly feel these camps need ‘API’s so that we can take the best of the both or many worlds :-) … just blogs and podcasts and beer sessions to resolve things is not the right approach ….

By: Mike Drips

Mike Drips — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:31:00 +0000

Wally: “Dad, Beaver said that MashUp Camp sucked!”
Dad: “Beaver, now why did you go and say something like that?”
Beaver: “’cause it’s true, Dad. I was at Barcamp and Mashup camp and I thought Mashup camp sucked!”
Dad:”Beaver, don’t you understand that when you say things like that, it hurts Wally’s feelings? Granted, he’s older than and you and mildly retarded because he thinks he is King of the Blogs, but he is still (in the Biblical sense) your brother. Now don’t you think you should apologize to Wally?”
Beaver:”Dad, don’t you know that arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics? Even if you win, you’re still retarded.”
Dad:”Well I didn’t think about it that way, Beaver. Gee Wally I think the Beav is right. You are a retard!”

By: Chris Radcliff

Chris Radcliff — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:48:02 +0000

Sigh. I’m getting tired of summing myself up, but here goes again:

Holly, I’m not comparing Mashup Camp to BarCamp or any other unconference. My original comments (to Chris Messina, now lost to the vagaries of hard disk maintenance) simply stated that I had a great time and got a lot out of the experience. I also extrapolated that to the people I met there, who largely seemed to feel the same way. Andy’s (then Chris’s, then Ryan’s) simple dismissals of MashupCamp as some twisted shadow of the BarCamp ideal seemed unproductive at best, and mean-spirited at worst.

Reading TheRulesOfBarCamp over at barcamp.org, it’s hard to find anything that Mashup Camp didn’t follow. Yes, it was a bit odd to start a “Camp” early in the morning and end it each evening, but that’s a quibble about scheduling and hardly damning. There’s also nothing on there about hacking or the level of geekery required. In fact, I remember talking to Chris about UU ministries using the BarCamp format, and it’s really unlikely they’ll get together for long coding sessions. (Then again, never underestimate UU.)

What I’m trying to say is that Mashup Camp was what it was, and that was quite amazing enough for me. Suggesting changes and improvements is one thing, but summarily dismissing Mashup Camp, its proponents, and its satisfied attendees because it didn’t match your ideas about *Camps comes across as whining. To add to an already overlong post, here’s a lovely statement that was written in giant letters and posted at Mashup Camp. (I’m sure it was stolen from nuns or schoolchildren or something.)

“The Law Of Two Feet: If during the course of the gathering, any person finds themselves in a situation where they are neither learning nor contributing, they must use their two feet and go to some more productive place.”

To that I’ll add, “and maybe I’ll see you there and we can share a {drink of choice} and a laugh.” And now I’ll really shut up.

By: Holly Ward

Holly Ward — Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:06:27 +0000

Mike and Chris, I did show up in plenty of time to attend any event which could rightfully be expected to call itself a Camp. Other issues aside, Camps do not end at 6pm. MashupCamp was “kinda lame” (to quote Ryan) when you compare Mashup”Camp” with these other events–have you attended any of them? Did you enjoy them? How would you compare and contrast Mashup”Camp” to whatever unconferences you have attended?

I stand by my position that David Berlind was a total newbie when it comes to Camps. Why? because he said so himself:

“So, not really knowing what an unconference was and only knowing that insiders were raving about them, the decision that Mashup Camp would be an unconference was a no brainer.”

I understand that not everyone has had the opportunity of attending a real Camp. But I have learned an incredible amount in just a few short months just from attending these things, and I feel very strongly that Ryan and Chris Messina should be listened to on this subject. They are part of a small group that is making something amazing happen.

By: Chris Radcliff

Chris Radcliff — Sun, 05 Mar 2006 20:33:08 +0000

I won’t rehash the same arguments again, but I just wanted to make three quick points:

1. You make lots of good points, and this is generating a lot of great discussion. The idea that there wasn’t much camping going on, for instance, or the lack of specified hacking space (aside from the HiFi room at the Avante). Those are great ideas for improvement. I just wish the discussion came before the conclusion.

2. It’s probably doesn’t help your case to mention the support of two people who didn’t actually go to much of Mashup Camp. Besides, Chris already signed up for Mashup Camp 2.

3. Maybe it really isn’t your thing, and that’s fine. Just try not to pretend that you speak for all developers. I’m a developer (really!), I make mashups, I’m an API provider, and I had a stupendous time at Mashup Camp. (For me it was all about technology, so I don’t really get your point there.) With a bit of tweaking, I expect to have an even better time at Mashup Camp 2: Electric Boogaloo.

And that’s it for me. Good luck with BarCamp LA and subsequent camps. Maybe someday we’ll have a CampCamp to really nail all this stuff down.