PlaceSite vs. Plazes
Wired has just published a piece on PlaceSite:
At the O’Reilly Where 2.0 conference in San Francisco last week, Savage announced his latest project, PlaceSite, which combines online social networking with real-life networking in Wi-Fi cafes by providing computer users with a website unique to a particular Wi-Fi cafe.
When Tantek and I encountered this display at the Where 2.0 conference last week we immediately jumped in to demo mode and showed off Plazes. Oddly, the PlaceSite guys had not heard of Plazes, though they would certainly be competitors (come on guys, just because it was a school project doesn’t mean you don’t have to do your homework).
Whereas PlaceSite is constrained to specific locations, you can use Plazes anywhere you have an internet connection. The PlaceSite guys claimed that the venue-centric approach will get you “a lot of users at once.”
No, it won’t.
It’ll get a lot of people who’re annoyed by this weird page popping up when they’re trying to get their email or checking their fantasy football scores. With Plazes, you get few people connected to your system, but they actually use it. Hopefully I don’t have to explain the difference.
Moral of this story? Join Plazes and add me as a contact. :-)
July 6th, 2005 at 1:10 pm
When I first looked at Plazes earlier this year, there was no Linux support, so I didn’t even bother to register. Now they’ve got a Linux Launcher, but since it’s a bare binary with 37 library dependencies, the chances of it
working on my system (or anyone else’s, I’m guessing) are slim. Indeed, it segfaults loading.
Anyway, I found this stripped-down python plazes client which allowed me to “discover” my “plaze” in the world, and now I’m on. I am going to have to republish my “traces” RSS feed using FeedBurner, so I can keep track of who’s keeping track of my shuffling back and forth from home to work. 8^)
I notice that Tantek has been doing some plaze-driving in his travels: he is listed as having discovered over 300 plazes!
July 6th, 2005 at 1:50 pm
Whoa there, Tex. Sean from PlaceSite here with your much-needed corrections:
As I told you when you came to our table: I’ve had a Plazes account for quite a while. (Since September 2004, it turns out. Who else would choose username “cheesebikini?”)
I like your app and I wish you luck with your project. I think there’s a lot of opportunity for a Trepia/Plazes/Meetro project done right, but it’s a very different thing from what we’re doing with PlaceSite.
The most obvious difference:
“PlaceSite is built on what exists already. To use our service in a PlaceSite café, all you need is a wi-fi-equipped laptop and a standard Web browser. Those other services require you to install special software or buy new hardware. With the other services, most people in any given public place don’t have what’s needed so they don’t see the system, and they’re not visible on it. With PlaceSite, everyone using wi-fi in a place automatically experiences the system.”
I don’t see these concepts as competing. They will inevitably come together and this will will boost the value of each. Everyone in a place views a service customized for that place; those who want to delve deeper beyond the place download a client app.
Trepia’s out of commission, yes? Paul at Meetro clearly has an open and collaborative outlook, and he’s got a positive attitude.
Cheers
July 6th, 2005 at 2:39 pm
Sean-
First of all, when we came to your table you told use you had not seen Plazes. I don’t think we would have misunderstood you.
Second, I have no affiliation with Plazes. I’m just a user.
Third, I don’t think you get my point about the differences in the system- you can’t get users “automatically.” Just because a screen pops up for people doesn’t mean they will use it. Automatic is annoying. If you really want people to actually use the system, let them use it anywhere.
Sean, I don’t want to disparage your work, but I think some of your arguments are weak and I don’t like the idea of “automatically experiencing the system”– that’s just annoying.
July 6th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
Re: your lack of affiliation with Plazes: my bad, I assumed you were b/c you were demoing Plazes at the Where Fair.
Proof that I’ve been on Plazes: the Plaze “the happy hovel” in Berkeley, CA, created by me 9/20/2004. Or just ask Felix Petersen at Plazes.
So either (1) I’m insane and I said I’d never heard of Plazes as you showed it to me last week, or (2) you somehow misunderstood what I said. I’m betting on #2. But let’s not waste time arguing about what I said. The point is: I’ve heard of Plazes.
As for the rest: you’re free to disparage our work, and to use it or not. We’d love to hear what you think. Cheers.
Sean
July 7th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
Ryan,
I don’t see what your real gripe with PlaceSite is. If anything, paired up with Plazes, you’d have a pretty killer app for cafes and other open wifi zones. PlaceSite allows the wifi provider to offer you information that they think might be relevant and Plazes gives you a tool to communicate your whereabouts to friends as well as track where you’ve been.
Indeed, it would make sense for someone using PlaceSite to locate themselves on the Plazes network. By way of the Plazes API, they could pull in data to show who’s present at that location from the Plazes network in tandem with folks on the local PlaceSite network.
Where I see PlaceSite adding real value would be in hosting a slick, web-based IRC channel for the specific location… sort of like a “back channel” for discussion or meeting up. Let’s face it, it *is* easier to make introductions where everyone is represented in ASCII text. Making the connection offline is the hard part. So having Plazes that follows you around and PlaceSites at the places that you actually go to me makes a ton of sense.
Am I missing something?
July 7th, 2005 at 4:07 pm
Ryan, these projects have a thoroughly different scope. Both exist to enable community, but one is user-centric and the other venue-centric. Your website, for example, is venue-centric, people come here and see what you want them to see, they get useful extra features like having your contact info, using your wiki. Your RSS feed is user-centric, I get it when I want, I can pull a certain amount of data from it and use it however I’d like. Both have their place and both work together nicely.
If PlaceSite gives venue owners the ability to offer additional services to their users and thereby increase their patronage, it will mean more places offering wi-fi and more people who may never have heard of Plazes but went to a cafe with wifi to discover the joys of community. Why do you have a blog and not just an RSS feed? It lets people who don’t use Plazes get those added benefit, and there are certainly enough people out that that saturation is never high enough.
Also, as Sean said, they aren’t competitors, they are both trying to provide something useful for community. I would love to set up a PlaceSite for my block, used as a community bulletin board, a sense of unity for the area, any of that, and I don’t see why I wouldn’t want it to pull in Plazes info for things in the area, or join networks with another PlaceSite. Is there an IRC channel for your plaze? Plazes can do a lot more to offer better services, but the community feeling of running a box somewhere for people in your area is going to be tough to beat.
Regarding the automatic popup annoying people, I don’t honestly feel annoyed that someplace that is giving me something for free (wifi) makes me click on something before I get to it, most places do that anyway and I am thoroughly used to opening a web browser whenever I connect to a new wireless network to see where it takes me.